not pulling a tim...just being a man and using my words

I don't want to change the topic if there's more to be said, so I'm gonna try and change it slightly and then bring it back. Dan, you mentioned throwing the baby out with the bath water. I agree with what you said, so I'm not gonna repeat it. But I want to mention something else that has to do with babies and bathwater that might be of interest (or at least to Tim, if you're still thinking about doing counseling stuff at RTS). This is a big issue on campus, so I hear about it a lot.

There's a new-ish type of counseling known as Nouthetic Counseling. Their main argument is that Freud, Skinner, and all the rest of those guys we studied in Brophy's intro class at UCF approached the world from an anti-Christian worldview (well, at least Freud. His goal was to prove that we don't need God and he doesn't exist). Nouthetics looks at the world and all of its problems from a strictly biblical standpoint. Which is great, because the Bible actually has a lot to say about people's issues. Their focus is on the process of sanctification.

But don't confuse this with "Christian counseling." Christian counseling, as it is seen today, blends the two, but leans a great deal toward Freudian theories. They will say that your problem is because of something or someone in your past. Nouthetics would say that, yes, there might have been this problem in your past that triggered you to act a certain way in certain situations, but you are still responsible for your actions (usually sinful). The best way to describe it is intense discipleship.

The problem is that a lot (not all) of the Nouthetic leaders disagree with Freud, Skinner, et al, and therefore start throwing babies, bathwater, towels, soap, deodorant--it's all going out. Yes, there is no proof that there is such a thing as a chemical imbalance and so we really shouldn't be diagnosing it. But that doesn't mean that it isn't really there. We just don't have the knowledge yet to know for sure either way. No, depression is not scientifically diagnosable (it's one of those last result things). But that doesn't mean that there is a sin issue. Maybe really is just sad a lot. They want to take everything that these guys have ever said/studied and say that it's useless. Yes, their results were done from a non-Christian, worldly standpoint. But the research is usable. If you've never heard of Nouthetics, but are interested at all, check out Jay Adams, "Competent to Counsel." It's an intro-type book. There's only a couple of things in it that I would disagree with. But definitely a good read...well worth it.

Okay, I don't have a segue to bring it back, but I do want to say something else back on the other topic. I think it's quite alright to question and challenge the church. Not doing so can be dangerous. I think we need to realize that people come to Christ and worship in different ways. I had a "conversion experience". Trey would probably say that he might have come to a realization of who Jesus is one day, but he's always believed. And that's the main thing--belief. Jesus says over and over again to believe. We can push for change in the church and challenge church culture all day. But we must also stick to the main tenets of the church universal: belief in a God who created the world and did everything in the OT, and faith in a Savior who died on a cross and was raised from the dead three days later so that all who believe might be saved.